Posts by Ruff Seas

    After being "away" (e.g., taking a break from engaging in most activity regarding forums - mine included) I decided to go back over my "watched threads" list here at Woltlab Forums; and that was a good thing because it has given me an opportunity to look at past topics and discussions (and my responses) in a new and refreshed "light".

    Ellionator - I like what you had to say in #'s 1 and 2. I think you have correctly identified the "king pin" to a establishing a successful forum.

    I would add here that I personally believe there can be at least one addition made to those two points you made - I will elaborate further on herewith. But first I would also make some observations regarding the area of "competition" - that being Social Media. Actually, it is in the truest since not a competition but rather a distraction!

    Unless Facebook and Twitter implode sometime in the future, those of us who like forums (and also do not believe 'forums are dead' - as a few persons have stated) will just have to accept the fact social media is a "force" that must be recognized, but also understood as to why it attracts many people.

    1) Social Media - like Facebook for a prime example - attracts most people because they don't really have to think for themselves - especially when it comes to forming new ideas and making independent, unique decisions entirely on their own. Instead, there is this built-in ready-made social response "formula" that enables their participation without having to make any extensive and well thought out contributions.

    [One person here on Woltlab Forum said it quite well I think: Most Facebook users are mindless robots trolling along like sheep; or, sheep being herded over the cliffs - and gladly to so.

    2) And Twitter ... well here we have a bunch of people who engage in quick spurts of "tweets" without any thought as to what the consequences of

    their tweets may lead to. Most couldn't care less - even those in "high places"! And as for actually engaging in any unique, thought-provoking one-on-one discussions of a complex or comprehensive subject with someone else ........... well, that not only didn't cross their consciousness, many also wouldn't know where to begin in taking part in subjects and discussions which require not only concentration of serous thought beyond a few seconds, but which also requires thoughtful, purposeful direction of the thought processes.

    Now for that "one addition" I mentioned I would include here:

    From my experience with interaction on Forums - and I have been a member of various types/formats of forums - from highly technical to the "adult" sites - there is one element that many (but NOT all) Forum Administrators who actually under-cut their own success regarding making their forum attractive to a wide audience. And when I say this, I am fairly sure I am going to ruffle a few "feathers" here, but I am going to say it anyway:

    1) For some illogical reason, many (but NOT all) forum administrators have an unbending, unreasonable opinion (and with it the implementation thereof) that allowing a Forum Member to refer to, AND / OR include a LINK to, a blog, forum, or a website they are also an administrator of.

    Why alienate, restrict, and suppress a Member's activity simply because that person offers something that someone else (another forum member) may be interested in? What is the Administrator afraid of? Such a narrow minded approach is foolish at best, but worse, it is also self-defeating.

    I would appreciate ideas, comments, and/or suggestions from anyone who can offer what may possibly be the best way to get a forum / website to appear in the Search Engines.

    Trying to accomplish a high (or higher) ranking for one's forum / website in order to attract more potential Visitors (and who hopefully will become members) can be a very frustrating and often times consuming task without satisfactory results.

    Many people apparently seem to rely upon optimizing the Google "settings" - and Forum Software Developers (including Woltlab) have set up a process to set up and implement Google.

    But relying upon Google (at least for some types of particular forum / website content) can be an exercise in futility because Google has a rather nasty habit of "downplaying" or ignoring (not recognizing) those websites it doesn't like.

    And social media sites like Twitter and Facebook are even more "troublesome" in this regard - (Even Mark Zuckerberg's co-founder in a recent interview with the news media said as much regarding Facebook.

    As for Twitter, they often engaged in"shadow banning" of those Blog, Forums, and Websites they don't approve of.

    So - unless I am leaving out some alternative here unknown to myself - that leaves a person to invest time and effort (and in some situations money) in the remaining alternatives:

    Listing one's website with those service providers who specialize in promoting websites via "manual listing" of various search engines - not just Google; advertising one's website on their website; or through a combination of the aforementioned together with Banner Advertising (on various "promotional websites" which accept promotion of other websites if they meet their criterion).

    I have been trying to input the public and private keys for recaptcha v2 in my admin panel, but I keep getting the following error where the recaptcha is supposed to be on the registration page: ERROR for site owner: Invalid site key

    I have checked and double checked the numbers, but nothing seems to fix this issue. I even attempted to register a site in recaptcha for the invisible recaptcha, but I get the same error.

    When I had my last forum acive - using version 3.0.x - I also encountered this problem.

    Attention Alexander Ebert: When version 3.2 is released, will we still encounter this problem as described by "kiloseven"?

    Dilip A forum run by one person might get a handful of posts a day cannot compete against these social networking sites that have millions of users with just a many posts made each day on them. Give me one reason why anyone now would want to use a forum over the them because of that. Facebook even has groups now that can compete (slaughter) a forum covering a niche with a FB group for it. New teenage people coming on the web are not interested in using forums, why forums like TAZ has turned to hardly getting any new posts now compared to years ago, it's just the same "old" forum users on it posting. They ain't getting any new youngsters joining because they ain't interested in using forums.

    Times have changed now, but most people that run forums are blind to it happening and still think it's worth running one. How many admin forums have you started and closed because nothing was happening on them Dilip

    Dilip, please excuse me for making a reply to GTB here as I know he directed this to you.

    However I would alike to add my thoughts and comments on what he said as stated in the above quote.


    "A forum run by one person might get a handful of posts a day cannot compete against these social networking sites that have millions of users with just a many posts made each day on them. Give me one reason why anyone now would want to use a forum over the them because of that."

    One reason ? Alright, I will give you one!

    Because using a forum gives the Admin and Staff (AND those persons who are either Visitors OR Members of the Forum) the ability and opportunity to illustrate, discuss, and reason out an issue or subject matter with forethought and intelligence way beyond those persons who are using (AND post on) such social media "giants" like FB.

    (2) "New teenage people coming on the web are not interested in using forums."

    And just WHY is this true in many cases?

    Because young people are in general (and in some cases specifically) taught, brainwashed, and deliberately "channeled into" narrow and limited viewpoints (and in "simple" ways of expressing themselves) by the so called professional and knowledgeable instructors and counselors in many schools and universities who themselves are (apparently) incapable of any intelligence of thought or verbal utterance beyond a quick and often "empty" and/or meaningless response or reply.

    Thus " 'new youngsters ...' " are joining FB and other social media outlets (and usually not FORUMS) because they find expressing themselves going beyond the "140 allowed spaces" too much mental effort; and besides, why use one's brain if Social Media like FB (and some others) can offer a 'free get away from using one's brain ticket', and in so doing, still be accepted among one's peers?

    It might be the harder part, to attract new members, why should they search for your community, when social networks offer something that may not be perfect but is right there?

    To answer part of your question:

    Social networks (if you are referring to Facebook, Twitter, etc.) do not offer what will be on my Website/forum.

    As for the ability to attract new members (or to build up a Visitor and Member base) - that is an issue any type of forum or media must accomplish if they want to consider themselves "successful".

    In previous forums I have used only static Logos (and text) in my Forum Header area.

    With my new forum, I want a LOGO positioned in the Forum Header which will be animated.

    Is this possible? (I will be using the 3.1.x software version).

    Would appreciate anyone weighing in on this issue, to explain, and perhaps give, the CSS Code - (or what ever needs to be changed or added to) - in order to for me to accomplish this.

    Note: I will have the Logo professionally created/designed; so if there is something specific I should tell the person who does the Logo design for me, please let me know!


    " 'To offer something that the giants don't offer' ".

    I personally believe this is one of the "key success factors" for everyone who has a FORUM.

    With that in mind, a new approach, and "goodies" offered, for my upcoming website / forum project will be a high priority.

    Too bad you wont post a link, my wife and I are kind of into those things.

    You should keep your forum open and use the WoltLab CMS for writing articles (as a blog), make the forum secondary to the articles.

    I personally hate Facebook (it's mindless B/S) and look forward to its demise.

    Your last sentence above - priceless! I am so glad someone besides me hates Facebook!

    In the past not so long ago - either while posting on forums other than my own, or engaged in personal "conversations" with friends(?) - I felt as though at any minute I would be roped (hog tied) and dragged through burning embers if I ever dared again to say anything "bad" about

    Facebook or Mark Zuckerberg and gang.

    Having said that however - coming back to the "main theme" of this thread - there was one Woltlab Member on this Woltlab Forum

    who said it best:

    [NOT an exact quote]: As for "forums", there needs to be an "over-haul" with regards to the basics of forums to meet head-on the changes in how people at large feel and react to social media expression; e.g., how the majority of people use, and are influenced by, the social media "giants".

    Additionally I would hasten to add this:

    Making it "easier" for people to use a Forum is only part of what needs to be done!

    IF forums are "dying" - as some here in this thread seem to believe - it is primarily for one reason:

    The world is changing; and how people react and participate within that changing world, has and will continue to be,

    learning to change with the world.

    People who love to create, design, and present forums must somehow learn to adapt to those "changes and attitudes".

    It won't be easy, but it can be accomplished!

    But like anything else in this world, if it is concluded on the part of an individual, group, or company that pursuing a particular goal -

    (of "something" worthwhile is merited) - then it will only be realized by a continued commitment and persistence in the face of all obstacles.

    And one last important ingredient:

    Supplementing the above stated with the willingness to support "ability" (knowledge) with "opportunity":

    e.g., sporting a hell of a big monetary budget!

    It’s just what I know how to use and it’s simple. I’ve never tried Plesk so I don’t know how difficult it is to use.

    Most of us have used cPanel and liked it. I don't know whether there is any particular reason why I like it. As LogixX said, it's simple and easy to use.

    I agree with you both - cPanel is easy to use.

    As for Plesk, if it ever comes to having cPanel replaced by Plesk, I would probably give up managing my own website/forum projects entirely.

    And IF cPanel were to be discontinued, there would be many unhappy people - me being one of them!

    This is an interesting question for sure!

    I too would be interested in knowing if this could be accomplished.

    Very well stated Mistah J !

    You have made several good (and valid) points regarding GDPR; and with your comment to Netzwerg.

    [I especially like your last paragraph!]

    As an individual who has been active on the internet (with a variety of websites and forums since 2003) - as well as an upcoming

    website / forum project to be launched later this year - I can personally "testify" that you are right on!

    Additionally to responding to your post #78, for a "brief moment" I had seriously contemplated replying to posts 76 and 77;

    but giving it a little more thought decided not to - at least for the immediate time.

    However having said that, there were statements in those two posts (76 and 77) which illustrate all too well some past world history which people in general got caught up in - and let themselves be swayed [brainwashed] - by seemingly "harmless" and beneficial changes for the 'good of all' with "movements" and "regulations" which led to a very nasty turn of events affecting adversely the whole world.

    Although on a different "scale" than with reference made in the paragraph above, GDPR is by its own merit (?) of intentions and influence yet another method of indoctrinating society in general for implementing the seemingly harmless but worthwhile cause of: 'for the good of all'.


    Ruff Seas That link has been posted numerous times in this topic.

    I posted the link - along with some comment - in response to Moonclamp 's Post #61.

    YOU apparently don't approve.

    There is one other reason - besides replying to Moonclamp's Post - for posting the particular LINK I did;

    and that is to bring "focus" (or deliberate attention) to the fact that the GDPR Regulation is VERY lengthy, and VERY complicated -

    meaning, that anyone WITHOUT A LEGAL BACKGROUND and EXPERTISE in issues of this type should seek out knowledgeable legal advice IF THEY ARE SERIOUS ABOUT COMPLYING WITH THIS REGULATION - or even if they are not intending to comply.

    It would be nice to see a plugin made to integrate with to help combat spammers. I am having a serious problem with spammers on my board and have seen a few others mention the same as well. I think it would be a plugin that would do well and help a lot of people out.

    Ask your Hosting Provider to Block the offending spammer(s) from the "server side".

    Give them the IP Address of the offender(s); and let them know you want the entire range blocked. If you block just one IP Address, you will be

    messing around with blocking multiple IP Addresses til the "cows come home".

    I am including herewith a LINK (BELOW) to the official and complete GDPR Regulation.

    It consists of 11 Chapters, and those 11 Chapters have 99 Articles.

    IF you truly want to know exactly where you stand on this issue, a consultation with an Attorney who is knowledgeable

    (and has experience with legal matters of this type), is highly advisable.

    Relying on the "comments", "advice", and "opinions" of those individuals out side of experienced legal expertise can give

    one a false sense of "security"; and at worse may have severe consequences in the final result.

    Securing an attorney who has the legal expertise to advise you correctly on this serious issue will not be easy;

    I already know this from my experience in searching for such an attorney. However it is not impossible, just difficult.

    Additionally, prepare yourself for spending a large amount of money; legal issues (especially of this type) DO NOT come

    without a "hefty" price tag.


    If you read another post made in this topic. It doesn't matter where your site is hosted from, what matters is do you fall under the GDPR based on the country you live in. Hosting your site in different country like the U.S that isn't currently covered by the GDPR doesn't make you exempt from it, not if you (yourself) live in a country covered by it.

    Back on topic, I'm curious to know how my forum should gear up for this as it's hosted in the USA and I manage it by living in Argentina.

    Also, would it be possible to use the WoltLab Privacy Policy as a template?

    Do forums with a few dozen members around the world (including the EU) and not set up as a business, fall under this new law?

    As Splinter stated: 'Back on topic'

    I am personally interested in this legal issue regarding GDPR as with regard to Forums and Websites an individual or business may have - or intends to have soon - (my partner and I come in the latter group mentioned).

    "Interested" from basically two points:

    ONE: What would happen if my partner and I just ignore the GDPR? - (Or to put it another way, we DO NOT comply with the GDPR Ruling) !

    TWO: Since both my partner and I live in the U.S., and our joint forum project will be based in the U.S., but Hosted by a company who is in a country other than the U.S., are we legally bound to comply with GDPR?

    I may be wrong, but I think the nearest we (my partner and I) will get to the "legal bottom line" regarding this issue, is to consult with an

    attorney who is well experienced in Internet Law.

    Since our new forum will contain highly sensitive materials and adult content as well, we have already made the decision to consult with an attorney we have selected.

    Depending upon what he tells us, we will make our final decision as to whether or not we comply with GDPR.


    Yes, but please bear in mind that the page you put an emphasis on calling "Gallery" is "just" the list of all (accessible) images in gallery that can be sorted by the user visiting the page – and the default order is by upload time (you can see that by clicking on the "Sort" button). The image list is not intended to preserve any specific image order – that is what albums and their "Sort Images" function is for.

    " 'The image list is not intended to preserve any specific image order [MY EMPHASIS] – that is what albums and their "Sort Images"

    function is for.' "

    And that "fact" right there is something which will cause Visitors OR Members to become confused at best; and possibly irritated !

    I know, because I have already had a couple of comments about this issue; and I only have a very few Members.

    I do not relish the thought what it would be like if there were 10,000 members!

    Like I said previously: The only way (for now at least) is to create a BOX in all relevant areas of the forum which attempt to explain

    this issue; and offer advice as to how to handle this issue with Albums when it comes to viewing the proper sequence of Action Gifs -

    which I have done.

    The default image list (what you call "Gallery") sorts images by the time at which they where uploaded, starting with the lastest image. The preview images of an album (as seen on the "Albums" page) by default also use the upload time, but starting with the first image. The images of an album, however, can be manually sorted if you visit the album:

    so that when viewing the album or the preview images on the album list, this custom sort order is used.

    Thank you for your reply and explanation.

    However, I believe YOU missed the most important part of what I was attempting to convey in this Thread.

    Just a few minutes ago I deleted the Album with the Action Gifs - (Set of 3 Gifs) and uploaded them once again to "GALLERY"

    on my forum - keeping in mind your explanation.

    So yes, I could see what was taking place as I uploaded these 3 gifs of set, and the final results of that upload.

    After I had completed the Album, I clicked on "sort images", and I was able to get these 3 Gifs set in their correct order.

    However, the fact remains that when a Visitor (or Member) visits the forum and desires to see the ALBUMS that are in "Gallery",

    that individual can either CLICK ON the word "Gallery" (of the drop down menu), OR, can HOVER OVER the word "Gallery",

    and then the drop down menu will appear; and then the individual can Click on the word "Albums".

    The REASON why I am making a distinct point of the procedure described above, is this:

    IF the individual visiting (viewing) the forum CLICKS on the word "Gallery", he will get one version of the SEQUENCE of the Action Gifs;

    but he will get a second (different version) of the SEQUENCE of the Action Gifs IF he CLICKS on the word "Albums" of the Drop Down Menu!

    And REGARDLESS of how the Action Gifs are set up - by way of uploading to "Gallery" originally, OR how those same Gifs were EDITED -

    IF the individual CLICKS on the WORD "Gallery" (and NOT on the drop down menu name "ALBUMS"), those Action Gifs are going to be

    OUT OF SEQUENCE - that is, they will be in REVERSE of their correct order.

    Because of this, I am assuming at least for now, that I should make a BOX (for explanation purposes) for the Albums / Image Area

    of "Gallery" so that when a Visitor OR Member wants to see what is in "Gallery",

    they should hover over the word "Gallery" and then CLICK ON: "Albums";

    as this procedure is particularly important when it comes to ACTION GIFS that must be viewed in their CORRECT sequence.

    A Member of my forum posted a notice that he experienced a problem with a three (3) section ACTION GIF which is uploaded to GALLERY.

    He claims that it is NOT in the correct viewing order.

    I Logged on as Administrator, and NOT logged on (viewed as a Visitor), and also as a Member.

    I did notice that the ORDER of the Action Gif become REVERSED depending upon

    which is Clicked ON: "Gallery" OR "Albums" - (of the Gallery Drop down Menu).

    Is this a bug? Or some other condition?

    Forum Version is: WSC 3.0.12 pl 1


    Please refer to Screen Shots below to further explain and illustrate this issue.