Automatic installation of Plug-in Package Servers

  • I've just become aware that some of the plug-ins on my site are not up to date. I had assumed that when updates were available for plug-ins, that these would become available as a software update in the ACP, but this is not default behaviour. I'm very surprised by this.


    Can WoltLab please consider that when plug-ins are installed on sites, that the plug-in developers package servers (which contains the updates for the plug-ins) are automatically installed too. In the meantime, could WoltLab put some Notice into the ACP informing novice admins that this function does not happen by default and they need to refer to third party sites for updates and support.


    I've not moaned about this recently, but this is another example of why a comprehensive manual is needed, as one of these plugins was out of date and was causing errors on my site.


    There is a wider point and perhaps it's been discussed long before I ever came onto this site and that is of support for plug-ins in general. WoltLab sells plug-ins from this site and checks them, that is excellent, but to get support for this plug-ins you have to go to the plug-in developer sites, which if you have multiple plug-ins, means creating accounts on multiple different sites. Very messy.


    As the plug-ins are already sold and checked for consistency here, could WoltLab not go one step further and have this site as a central hub for everything to do with Plug-ins, including support and updates for them?


    Many thanks

    Jupter

    I am a Newbie Admin. Please be gentle, I don't understand technical things.
    (Please can we have a full manual for this software)

  • Jupiter

    Changed the title of the thread from “Automatic installation of Plugin Package Servers” to “Automatic installation of Plug-in Package Servers”.
  • Hi

    I've just become aware that some of the plug-ins on my site are not up to date. I had assumed that when updates were available for plug-ins, that these would become available as a software update in the ACP, but this is not default behaviour. I'm very surprised by this.

    I am confused: Our Plugin-Store is available as an update server by default. Did you buy or download an add-on outside the Plugin-Store?

  • I am confused too.


    If you read the the link in my OP "causing errors," throwholics highlighted a plug-in by SoftCreatR called [Developer] MediaElement.js Integration 1.1.0 which was causing problems. I have never, to my knowledge, purchased or installed that plug-in. But I have installed a similar naming plug-in by a different developer called MediaProvider Collection and the two plug-ins seem to relate to each other in some way.


    I've even noticed WoltLab plug-ins in my ACP that I don't recall purchasing or installing which are also on my site like "Infractions" and "Moderated User Groups". I have no idea what these plug-ins do, but they are separately listed to the main WoltLab plug-ins that I did install like the Core and Forum.


    I would prefer having full control over what plug-ins are installed on my own site with knowledge of what they do. As is always the case, manuals are sorely lacking for plug-ins as well as the main WoltLab software.

    I am a Newbie Admin. Please be gentle, I don't understand technical things.
    (Please can we have a full manual for this software)

  • If you read the the link in my OP "causing errors," throwholics highlighted a plug-in by SoftCreatR called [Developer] MediaElement.js Integration 1.1.0 which was causing problems. I have never, to my knowledge, purchased or installed that plug-in. But I have installed a similar naming plug-in by a different developer called MediaProvider Collection and the two plug-ins seem to relate to each other in some way.

    THis plugin is used by many plugins and most likely the latest version is jsut not on woltlab package server, but rather on the one from Sascha himself.



    I've even noticed WoltLab plug-ins in my ACP that I don't recall purchasing or installing which are also on my site like "Infractions" and "Moderated User Groups". I have no idea what these plug-ins do, but they are separately listed to the main WoltLab plug-ins that I did install like the Core and Forum.

    Infractions and moerated usergroups are core elements. Moderated usergroups you have selected during the installation.

    With the help of that feature you can moderate users, and have group admins etc etc ;)

    different groups etc :D



    I would prefer having full control over what plug-ins are installed on my own site with knowledge of what they do. As is always the case, manuals are sorely lacking for plug-ins as well as the main WoltLab software.

    You do have full control, usually the plugins state what is included, otherwise rather download the package and see the extracted folder for /required"

  • As always, throwholics, you shine a light on things here. :)


    Infractions and moerated usergroups are core elements

    If they're core, why are they listed as separate plug-ins? That doesn't make sense.

    Moderated usergroups you have selected during the installation.

    Possibly, it was a long time ago now!


    With the help of that feature you can moderate users, and have group admins etc etc ;)

    different groups etc :D

    To be honest, I'm still none the wiser here. Could you give a example of what this does, exactly?


    I have admins on my site, how does this plug-in help with them, or any other user-group for that matter?


    Sorry, if I sound thick, but that's because I am. Unless there is a clear instruction with a picture, I am always lost on such things.:S

    I am a Newbie Admin. Please be gentle, I don't understand technical things.
    (Please can we have a full manual for this software)

  • THis plugin is used by many plugins and most likely the latest version is jsut not on woltlab package server, but rather on the one from Sascha himself.

    But how do I tell which plug-in from which? How do I know whether the plugin should update via my ACP or whether I need to go to another site to get updates? And finally, how do I know whether a plug-in I install then needs another one to work?


    Very confusing and hit and miss at the moment.

    I am a Newbie Admin. Please be gentle, I don't understand technical things.
    (Please can we have a full manual for this software)

  • Some plugins need other plugins to work. It‘s the same with the forum and the core.

    And some plugins provide optional plugins.


    The plugins which are required will be installled automatically. About optional plugins, you get a prompt message where you can decide to install it or not.


    So you have the control. For Example. My MediaProvider Collection needs the MediaElement.js to show some videos. So it will be installed automatically. But i have some optional plugins too. During the installaion of the collection you decided to install my packageserver as a optional plugin.


    Your Problem is, that the latest plugin versions aren’t on the woltlab’s packageservers. For my plugins i provide the serveradresse of my packageservers because they will be released earlier there. But this is not the normal practice.


    Please have a look on this site https://packagesniffer.mysterycode.de/

    Mysterycode collected the addresses of many developers. With these addresses you will be updated for the most plugins.

  • Thank you the_waiters. That is very helpful, especially that link.:thumbup:


    I will have questions about your plug-in soon, but I will go to your site to ask them.:)

    I am a Newbie Admin. Please be gentle, I don't understand technical things.
    (Please can we have a full manual for this software)

  • No, unfortunately only Moderated Usergroups is.

    Infractions comes with WL applications and is not free software (LGPL) like WSC and Moderated Usergroups

    You guys are all experts on all things WoltLab, but if you're confused by these things, can you see why new people to WoltLab software might be confused too, especially thick ones like me?:)


    My understanding of a plug-in, is, it is a program developed by a third party developer and is not part of the core WoltLab software.


    Perhaps this is a translation issue here, but WoltLab use the same word to describe different things, something I am encountering quite a bit....


    For WoltLab's core software, their apps, they call these things plug-ins too. (Clearly, they're not) And then confusingly, we have these other WoltLab "plug-ins" which are part of the Core software, and yet are separate for some reason and need to be installed separately, but are also called plug-ins.


    And then we have other third party plug-ins which are associated with other plug-ins.


    I think I need something alcoholic to help me get through all this, only problem is I don't drink!^^ It will have to be chocolate instead.:)


    Udoz, I've registered with your site a long time ago, but haven't had a chance until now to start looking at your community bot plug-in which I installed. Just to warn you, I'm coming!^^


    By the way, you sent me a very nice greeting when I registered on your site which would have made sense to me, if it was in English. It was in German.;)

    I am a Newbie Admin. Please be gentle, I don't understand technical things.
    (Please can we have a full manual for this software)

  • My understanding of a plug-in, is, it is a program developed by a third party developer and is not part of the core WoltLab software.

    At the end, it's probably a wording issue; there is no clear definition. My understanding:

    • Every package, which can be installed through the ACP package manager, is an extension and is not part of the Core, but uses the Core's API. Doesn't matter who developed it.
    • Plugins are extensions with a tag 'is not an app(lication)', which can't be managed by the App Manager in the ACP.
    • App(lication)s are extensions with a tag 'is an app(lication)' and can be managed by the App Manager in the ACP.

    It's more or less a technical difference; the end user shouldn't care about much. A lot of people just call them plugins...

    For WoltLab's core software, their apps, they call these things plug-ins too. (Clearly, they're not) And then confusingly, we have these other WoltLab "plug-ins" which are part of the Core software, and yet are separate for some reason and need to be installed separately, but are also called plug-ins.

    The 2 extensions mentioned by Lycra (Infraction + Moderated Usergroups) are plugins made by WoltLab. They are not part of the core and, simplifying it a bit, they aren't required to run the Core and Apps based on the Core. Why they are plugins, I don't know. Please, ask WoltLab ;-)


    To make it even worse, Conversations aren't a part of the Core, either. It's a plugin. But each WoltLab App needs it and Conversations are installed automatically - as infractions are.


    Third party developer might do the same. There are some plugins / Apps, which require another third party plugin / Apps to work or offer special functions.

    Just to warn you, I'm coming! ^^

    You're welcome ;-)

  • Thanks UdoZ.


    I think I was following you up until the point about conversations being a plug-in, that's a surprise! It sounds like that when WoltLab has added some new features, rather than incorporating all new features into the Core app(s) some have been "bolted on" as plug-ins.


    It doesn't help that plug-ins are called Packages in the ACP, just to add to the confusion!


    Perhaps someone at WoltLab might consider tidying up the language a bit and perhaps making all this a little clearer in a future version. So, have sections as follows:


    Core apps

    Plug-ins to Core apps

    Third party plug-ins


    Or, something like that.

    I am a Newbie Admin. Please be gentle, I don't understand technical things.
    (Please can we have a full manual for this software)