2.2 Language - Undone/Done > Unresolved/Resolved

  • In that case then Solved/Unsolved can work then. As they can just reopen anything auto closed as Solved if not answered.

    Wasn't quick enough before, missed this part of your previous post until just seeing it now. Yes, Resolved/Solved both are good candidates for new phrasing to "replace" undone/done. I went back through the replies, and looks like most are in favor of "Solved/Unsolved" rather than "Resolved/Unresolved". I'm for either one, but looks as if "Solved/Unsolved" is the winner so far. :)


    I can edit en.xml file, and reattach as 4.1./2.1 temporary solution for "Solved/Unsolved", because will be a while until 4.2 is out and I don't have funds to update to it immediately. Edit: I don't know, just still seems funny to me, so my vote still remains for Resolved/Unresolved. For some reason Solved/Unsolved doesn't ring right here in a general / support type forums.


    But if solved/unsolved makes in 4.2, then will at least be better than Undone/Done. Haha. I'll just have to tweak it for Unresolved/Resolved for personal use.


    Files

    • en-solved.zip

      (961 Byte, downloaded 68 times, last: )

    Edited 21 times, last by Smooey ().

  • As I mentioned earlier, words in English may carry several meanings, with some that are more used and common than others. "Done" can be used as adverb to express when you are through (had enough) with something. As adjective and noun, "done" is used when a task has been performed or carried out, settled, completed. A thread that was never solved, resolved, or answered is hardly completed or settled.

    But then done would be the right translation, because erledigt means the same in German and you can't change the meaning in only one language. I don't think erledigt is always the right word but the users get it if you explain how it is used in the specific (sub)forum.

  • But then done would be the right translation, because erledigt means the same in German and you can't change the meaning in only one language. I don't think erledigt is always the right word but the users get it if you explain how it is used in the specific (sub)forum.

    You seem to be stuck in a loop, and aren't able to get out of the idea that there's a source language (German), and the translations to target languages must use words that convey literally the same meaning. I have already explained to you that languages do not translate literally from one another, and I'm not going to repeat myself.


    You fail to realize that in order to convey same/similar meaning, a word in a target language can be completely different from the source language, because the translation needs to take into account language and culture alike. For example, in Italian they use the colloquial "ciao" for the informal hi and goodbye, where the difference is conveyed by the intonation. According to your logic, if I were to translate "ciao" literally from Italian to German I should use "hallo" which we know it's wrong. Of course that would be a mistake because, once again, you cannot translate words literally, thinking they carry the same meaning. So, that ciao will probably translate into a German word that convey similar meaning that makes sense to the reader in that language, and not you.


    In sum, when you translate you need to convey meanings making sure the words used make sense in the target language, even if they differ greatly from the source.


    By the way, I see that you run a forum in German. Would it make sense to you if joined your board and started complaining that certain German words used there don't make sense when translated in English? And asked you to change them, maybe suggesting German words that I'd think more appropriate? Of course that would be completely inappropriate and silly on my part.


    Just some food for thoughts...

  • You seem to be stuck in a loop, and aren't able to get out of the idea that there's a source language (German), and the translations to target languages must use words that convey literally the same meaning. I have already explained to you that languages do not translate literally from one another, and I'm not going to repeat myself.

    The same could I say about you. This Feature has a fixed meaning, independent from the chosen language, which has to be expressed.

    For example, in Italian they use the colloquial "ciao" for the informal hi and goodbye, where the difference is conveyed by the intonation. According to your logic, if I were to translate "ciao" literally from Italian to German I should use "hallo" which we know it's wrong. Of course that would be a mistake because, once again, you cannot translate words literally, thinking they carry the same meaning. So, that ciao will probably translate into a German word that convey similar meaning that makes sense to the reader in that language, and not you.

    That's a poor comparison. We have a feature which enables us to tick off topics to show that the discussion has ended. Maybe each user has other ideas how it should be named, it may depend on the special use case in your forum, but there's a meaning that is intended completely independent from the used language. We need an english word, that means the same, not a better wording which means something like that but not exactly the same.

    By the way, I see that you run a forum in German. Would it make sense to you if joined your board and started complaining that certain German words used there don't make sense when translated in English? And asked you to change them, maybe suggesting German words that I'd think more appropriate? Of course that would be completely inappropriate and silly on my part.

    In my opinion you didn't get the meaning of this feature, perfectly described as 'erledigt' in german, otherwise you wouldn't suggest 'answered' or 'resolved'.

  • Wasn't quick enough before, missed this part of your previous post until just seeing it now. Yes, Resolved/Solved both are good candidates for new phrasing to "replace" undone/done. I went back through the replies, and looks like most are in favor of "Solved/Unsolved" rather than "Resolved/Unresolved". I'm for either one, but looks as if "Solved/Unsolved" is the winner so far. :)
    I can edit en.xml file, and reattach as 4.1./2.1 temporary solution for "Solved/Unsolved", because will be a while until 4.2 is out and I don't have funds to update to it immediately. Edit: I don't know, just still seems funny to me, so my vote still remains for Resolved/Unresolved. For some reason Solved/Unsolved doesn't ring right here in a general / support type forums.


    But if solved/unsolved makes in 4.2, then will at least be better than Undone/Done. Haha. I'll just have to tweak it for Unresolved/Resolved for personal use.



    In one of the screen-shots you listed the text description as: Can mark your threads as Solved (with a capital S for solved). But if you look at all other default descriptions used, they all use lower-case lettering. Just a minor thing, meh... but still it's not in keeping with how other default descriptions get added being written using lowercase.


    I hate little things like that and spot them.


  • In one of the screen-shots you listed text description as: Can mark your threads as Solved (with a capital S for solved). But if you look at all other default descriptions they use lower-case lettering. Just a minor thing, but still it's not in keeping other default descriptions in how they are written using lowercase

    Yeah I know, but all other ones are probably not actually correct either. But that's a whole different story and almost whole language file itself would need re-written by someone better with grammar than I am lmao. I capitalized it because it's what's being done to the thread itself, the "action" being done to it. Kind of like saying, "after your car is completed it will then be named/called bmw". When should say "BMW". Actually was wondering if it should be like "Can mark your threads as "Solved". It emphasizes what's being done to the thread after marking it.

  • There is no need to capitalise the S in solved at end of the description. Make is lower-case so that it matches rest of descriptions all being same way. ;)

  • There is no need to capitalise the S in solved at end of the description. Make is lower-case so that it matches rest of descriptions all being same way.

    Lol You're kind of like me and Aethior, picky or OCD about things like this. But I see what you're saying now haha. The same can be changed for user group permissions then I guess. Just leave others alone, but change for 3 things (descriptions).


    User group permissions > Forum > lower-case "solved"
    User group permissions > Moderator permissions > Forum > Threads settings > lower-case "solved"
    ACP > Community > Forums > List Forums > Edit Forum > Settings > lower-case "solved" to keep with others there.


  • Lol You're kind of like me and Aethior, picky or OCD about things like this.

    LOL, yeah, little things like that bug me because it's going against the norm of how things are. Upsetting the karma (ying-yang) of how how descriptions should remain same way written. And yes, I did notice is was done in more than just one area

  • LOL, yeah, little things like that bug me because it's going against the norm of how things are. Upsetting the karma (ying-yang) of how how descriptions should remain same way written. And yes, I did notice is was done in more than just one area

    Yeah no doubt! Lol. And yeah, I'm not sure what to do about it all. Because using all lower-case isn't technically right in some places, but yet, it's how it is in the core, even though core descriptions and grammar aren't right either. The whole dang file would need redone itself, but I'm no grammar professional to handle the task so... limbo time.


    Unless I should just make the file all lower-case and keep whole thing as it were original way? I'm not sure.. But the wording for front of site should keep the "S" or "U" in places so it looks good and right.

  • Yeah, here's what I'll do .. I'll install the site fresh in xampp, and only capitalize the words that are capitalized in core/default language file. Which I think are the front-end of site references / phrases. It will keep it all in sync with the rest of core phrases in ACP etc and front-end. We'll get this figured out lol. I'll post updated copy of then in this post.


    On off-topic side note, when I do mine, I'll manually search them out in ACP > Appearances > Language > Manage Phrases > name field. And edit them manually, saving as custom values. Because every time you update the software itself, it reverts them all back to defaults, then you'll have keep importing the en.xml file each time an update is out.


    @GTB Edit: I've gone ahead and kept this en.xml file in sync with the default/core en.xml file phrasing, except for the Administrator and Moderator Permission language correction. Other than that, the "Solved" phrases are how they were done originally in woltlab en.xml file for "Done/Undone" phrases.

    Files

    • en-solved.zip

      (971 Byte, downloaded 70 times, last: )

    Edited once, last by Smooey ().

  • The same could I say about you. This Feature has a fixed meaning, independent from the chosen language, which has to be expressed.

    That's a poor comparison. We have a feature which enables us to tick off topics to show that the discussion has ended. Maybe each user has other ideas how it should be named, it may depend on the special use case in your forum, but there's a meaning that is intended completely independent from the used language. We need an english word, that means the same, not a better wording which means something like that but not exactly the same.

    In my opinion you didn't get the meaning of this feature, perfectly described as 'erledigt' in german, otherwise you wouldn't suggest 'answered' or 'resolved'.

    I see that you are still stuck with the idea that words must translate literally between languages. That's not the best way to approach our problem, and you need to take a step back in order to better appreciate why English speakers don't like "done" and "undone" in this context.


    For the sake of the argument, let's try forget about the German version of WBB -- forget about its translation in German. Stop considering WBB as being a German product for a minute, and see it for what it is: a forum software. Let's just imagine that WBB were never translated in German and were instead an English-based software. Are you following so far? English native speakers would never use or expect to see words such as "done" and "undone" to mark forum threads, because they are extremely odd-sounding and uncommon in English. As I explained to you earlier, when translating languages not only do you need to consider its consistency, but also (and mostly) the audience's own language and the cultural and idiomatic nuance. You need to make sure you are not using odd and uncommon words that those speaker would find out of place and funny.


    Bad translations, odd wording, and strange terms are very distracting and stop the flow in any language, and done" and "undone" let me tell you, are indeed that sort of words. In short, when translating meanings across different languages, it is always advisable using words that make sense in the target language and to its speakers, no matter what the original word is.

  • Bad translations, odd wording, and strange terms are very distracting and stop the flow in any language, and done" and "undone" let me tell you, are indeed that sort of words. In short, when translating meanings across different languages, it is always advisable using words that make sense in the target language and to its speakers, no matter what the original word is.

    Sure. So solved means there's no need to post further contributions but doesn't suggest there is an satisfying answer or even any response? That's the meaning the green hook stands for.

  • I'm not going to repeat myself again, and your mind seems set anyways. That's fine, not many people are open to change after all. Thank you for your input.

  • I tried another variation on localhost just now, "Finished/Unfinished" might possibly work too? If the person found a solution to their problem, it's then marked "finished". If they haven't found solution, or issue isn't met, it's "unfinished" issue/thread. But in general, please remember that English customers is what they're trying to get more of here, more business, etc.


    It's the English language file that's used more in order to translate into the other languages here, as most don't know German as second language, but the English language is mostly learned as second language in most countries. Even developer said Undone/Done wasn't necessarily the best choice to use for that feature, and of course it's not set in stone that needs to remain that way either.


    Since site opened years ago and software started being developed, the English as whole maybe get to vote in 2% of anything, while the Germans had 98% voting power for everything in software. Let us have some voting power here, especially when it involves OUR stuff, not yours. We don't go to your side of the site, picking fights, trolling threads, demanding something undone or done, etc. Even if we ran public poll on both sides of the site here for possible better solution, the Germans would always out rank/vote our votes or whatever, and we/English would always be at losing end.


    You can't expect new customers / English customers to use funny and silly as words like "Undone/Done" for thread marking. Most commonly used ones are "Resolved/Unresolved" & "Solved/Unsolved". I'm not sure about "Finished/Unfinished" though, might work, might not. Lol. Or hell, just change the English language file only, not touching the de.xml at all, then you guys can keep and have the weird sounding stuff all to yourself... Lol

    Edited 3 times, last by Smooey ().

  • You can't expect new customers / English customers to use funny and silly as words like "Undone/Done" for thread marking. Most commonly used ones are "Resolved/Unresolved" & "Solved/Unsolved". I'm not sure about "Finished/Unfinished" though, might work, might not. Lol. Or hell, just change the English language file only, not touching the de.xml at all, then you guys can keep and have the weird sounding stuff all to yourself... Lol

    Many forums don't use just one language and most users dont's speak just one language. In order to work together this buildin features should mean the same independent from the used language. English is by far my worst. That's because I asked if it means something very similar or identic. Please keep this consideration in mind when suggesting new wording.

  • That's why I was using this site as suggestions for "Undone/Done" wording... And low and behold, unfinished is used, and opposite of unfinished, is finished.


    http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/undone
    http://www.wordhippo.com/what-…ther-word-for/undone.html
    http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/done.html


    And definition of finished - something that is finished has been completed. completed = done.



    There is only so many words, limited words that can be used here in English to replace "Undone/Done" and still not sound funny or silly in English. I can't help it, I didn't make the language lol. Either way, the developers have final say in matter, and final decision making.

  • Should posted this other day when someone sent screen shot of it, but they went with Unresolved/Resolved apparently.. :D I don't download alpha versions and try them out, even though I'm curious as to how they look and etc, cause issues, unstable etc.


    Goes nice with "Unread Posts" though too. Guess this thread could be labeled "Implemented" for 4.2 lol