REMOVE the "more comments" on blog replies

  • Please remove OR have the option to remove, the "more comments" from the blog replies. The blogs should be user friendly (easy to read) and not hide replies by default. People will not want an extra step just to read a reply.


    Current


    Proposal


    Edited once, last by Aslan ().

  • I'm not 100% sure but I guess this should easy be "editable".


    There is probably one file restricting the other comments by default.
    Not sure which file though :P


    I would NOT want to resort to manual file edits. While I could do them (obviously), it's not something I want as an option.

  • Alright, I do understand, ad always, your wishes. I mean I'm just saying that there are probably certain things such as these more buttons which do follow a higher purpose such as performance.


    There is no performance gain with the current link.


    The content actually does load (completely), but the link only hides it. So you're not gaining any performance by hiding. It seems to serve only as a visual.


    I'd like an option to disable that visual.

  • Hi

    The content actually does load (completely), but the link only hides it.


    Actually it does not. Only the three replies shown are initially loaded, the remaining ones are fetched via AJAX upon clicking the link.

  • This is what my members expect


    You will not get an exackt copy of what you have now. There will be some changes for your members.


    But still, this link can be annoying, especialy when you follow a notification and don't see the comment. But still, I think that showing all comments initially might be a little bit too much. I don't know. They should definitely be shown when you follow a notification.

    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" — Leonard Nimoy



  • You will not get an exackt copy of what you have now. There will be some changes for your members.


    But still, this link can be annoying, especialy when you follow a notification and don't see the comment. But still, I think that showing all comments initially might be a little bit too much. I don't know. They should definitely be shown when you follow a notification.


    Exactly the same? I don't expect it to be exactly the same (I'm realistic), but I also don't want something that takes away from what I already have... At least not the basics. And viewing replies is pretty basic. ;) A migration should either feel equal or as an upgrade, never a downgrade.


    As for your other points... This is why I would support it as an option.

  • but I also don't want something that takes away from what I already have... At least not the basics.


    Doing something different doesn't necessarily mean taking anything away. You feel like it takes something away, but in fact it might be equally good or even better when you just give it a chance.


    My fear is that showing all comments at once will be a little bit too much. Right now you can reasonably fast skim through all initial comments and follow only those comment-chains that you deem interesting. If this behavior is changed, it would negatively impact the people who already use the software right now.


    My biggest concern with hiding comments is the behavior of notifications. That should be changed, so that you can see all the releveant comments for that notification. But showing all comments always at once? Nah, thats a bit too much for my taste. But then again, give it an option that defaults to false and I don't bother.

    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" — Leonard Nimoy


    • Can people see it right away? No
    • Can Google see it right away? No
    • Does it require an extra step (more work)? Yes.

    Currently it's taking it away, not adding.


    But I do understand why some people may like it 'as is', which is why I'm OK with the idea of an option. It can be kept 'as is' as the default option if that is what would keep the familiarity for some. :)

  • The current approach has to do with the data structure, comments and responses are stored in two separate database tables (normalization). Yet there is some de-normalization taking places which means that up to 3 response ids are stored directly with the comment. The reason behind this is quite simple, we can read the comments and up to 3 responses for each comment with just two database queries.


    Now, why don't we simply load all responses for all visible comments at once? The answer is simple again, there can be a huge pile of responses for a single comment which slows down the page rendering (the more data being rendered, the slower things get). You cannot limit the amount of responses fetched for each comment without issuing separate database queries. Let's consider 10 comments being displayed, we would need 11 queries to read the comments and a specified number of responses for each comment (1 for all comments plus 1 per comment).


    Now you may argue, that 11 queries aren't that much and since they're hitting the primary index it is actually not that much. These queries would be perfectly fine if these were the only ones but unfortunately comments are embedded into pages which need to load their own data from the database. Combining the queries could quickly yield 30-40 queries on a single page, which is a bit too much from our point of view. Also displaying so many responses per comment cause a slow down of both the server rendering (generating the HTML for each response) and the client rendering (your browser has to parse and display a huge pile of HTML).


    And that's the reason why an option for this is not an option (I love these word-games).


    --


    We will take a look at the comment system and evaluate a few approaches to optimize this to better suit everyones needs, but this won't happen until Community Framework 2.2.

    Alexander Ebert
    Senior Developer WoltLab® GmbH

  • We will take a look at the comment system and evaluate a few approaches to optimize this to better suit everyones needs, but this won't happen until Community Framework 2.2.


    I'm very disappointed to hear this. It is possible that we may be forced to revisit Woltlab in 2016 when Woltlab 4.2 is developed.


    At which time, perhaps Woltlab will be better optimized to handle larger blog comments with the use of less resources (we do not have that query problem on our current development)


    :(

  • Both I and @Alexander Ebert talked elsewhere and there seems to have been a miscommunication. We both seem to have gotten stuck on the word, "comments" and what that really meant.


    This suggestion I was making was about "blog replies" and he thought I was talking about "blog entries".


    Miscommunications happen. If anyone else was confused... Or if anyone else did not understand my original request, I apologize for not being originally as clear as I thought I had been. :(


    I've been informed that, YES, this change can be made to "blog replies" without any negative performance. So this maybe considered as an option in 4.1 :)