Random Thoughts & chat

  • The only full employees are Marcel Werk, Alexander Ebert and Andrea Berg. And Andrea doesn't do development but instead customer services. Tim Düsterhues isn't a full time employee, and neither is Matthias Schmidt to my knowledge.



    So yeah, the main product of WL is Burning board, and I'd rather have them deliver a really superb forum software then trying to do to many things at once and not getting anything done "right". Yes, it's nice to have a blog that integrates nicely into the framework. But expecting it to be on par with Wordpress is just unrealistic, even in the long term. Look how many developers are working on Wordpress, and it is still crap compared to many paid alternatives (and even some free).


    WP is nice for hosted blogs, but once you really try to customize it it shows it's ugly face over and over again. Typo3 ftw...

    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" — Leonard Nimoy

  • I don't believe in doing things just to get by... I believe if you're going to do things, you should do things right the 1st time.


    You're telling me there are 3 full time developers, plus 2 part time developers. So that's 5 developers. It's more than enough.

  • No, there are only two full time developer and two part time.


    Just for fun, not representative. Mentions in the code (Burning Board, WCF, Blog, Gallery and Calender):


    Marcel: 1056
    Alexander: 703
    Tim: 178
    Matthias: 168


    1759 fulltime vs. 346 part time


    So thats two and a half fulltime devs :P

    www.cls-design.com
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  • I hate bringing up xenforo, because their support sucks, but they spit out code with only 3 developers. Woltlab has 5 developers... 2 full time, 3 part time... It should be enough.

  • @Adam Howard I think you haven't any experince with development. You can't do a thing right at the first time. And 5 developers are very very scant for a full community framework.

    I think you have lower expectations and experience. XenForo does it with 3 developers, IP.Board does it with 6.


    Woltlab has 5, that places them 1 less than IP.Board

  • That's still illogical. Sorry, but Woltlab has only 2 full-time developers instead of 5 and 2 part-time developers.


    And a comparison beetween Woltlab and Xenforo isn't very realistic. You should compare the whole offer. Woltlab offers much more products (and I think features, too) then XenForo.

  • XF with three developers has one application (calender) less and they used zend as a framework where woltlab has created a own one, so i don´t see that point XF is "better". And they purchased the galley, it´s not an own development.

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    Alle Stile jetzt auch in limitierter Stückzahl für WBB 4.1 (ノ´ヮ´)ノ*:・゚✧

  • The number of developers keeps changing... :rolleyes:


    The only full employees are Marcel Werk, Alexander Ebert and Andrea Berg.

    3 full time


    We seem to agree there are 2 part time developers...


    So again, 5 developers total.


    IP.Board makes their own framework with 6 developers.

    XF is "better"

    I'm not saying xenforo is better. Please do not misunderstand. I love WBB (Woltlab Burning Board). But I want to see more surrounding their other apps and I'm confident they can deliver.


    IP.Board has 6 developers and they''re able to do their framework, forums, blogs, calendar, file manager, cms, and chat.

  • @Adam Howard full employees dosen't mean developers. Andrea Berg for example has nothing to do with coding, her job is more like the job Ashley does, if you look at XenForo.

    Linux: Born to Frag 8) :D

  • Andrea Berg ist NOT a developer! So there are 2 full time and 2 halftime devs like it was said many times before

  • @Adam Howard full employees dosen't mean developers. Andrea Berg for example has nothing to do with coding, her job is more like the job Ashley does, if you look at XenForo.


    Andrea Berg ist NOT a developer! So there are 2 full time and 2 halftime devs like it was said many times before

    Alright 4 developers.


    IP.Board has 6 and are able to developer their framework, forums, blogs, file manager, cms, and chat.

  • You're telling me there are 3 full time developers, plus 2 part time developers. So that's 5 developers. It's more than enough.

    No, please read my post again. There are three full time employees. Andrea doesnt do development, she is only doing customer services. So you have two full time devs and two part time devs, whose exakt working times are unkown. But looking at the code, I wouldn't count them as more then a half-time employee both together. As far as I know, Tim pretty much only does the importers and related stuff, and nothing elese (he may be working on the CLI thing).

    I hate bringing up xenforo, because their support sucks, but they spit out code with only 3 developers

    Last time I was able to look at the XF code was shortly prior to their 1.0 release. Their code was crap. I mean really crap.


    And xF didn't do it right first time. They brought the experience over from vB (hence the lawsuit they faced at launch). And, as @wwdc pointed out, they didn't develop the gallry in-house but rather bought it. So they have little to offer in terms of actual genuine ideas and development. Not saying xF is bad, but I'd go for IP.B every time over xF. And iirc they don#t have a gallery at all.


    I think we don#t need to talk about vB, so that leaves only IP.B. Which not only has about three times the manpower (or two times, however you want to count the two part time devs), and is much more costly. And it still has it quirks and issues and can be a pain in the ass from time to time.


    And to be fair, IP.B isn't on par with worpress (and definitely not typo3) either, at least not the last time I checked (which has been some time).

    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" — Leonard Nimoy


  • My point is this... The moment you expect less, accept less, you're going to get less. I want more and I would love it if you all wanted more, expected more, and in turn you'd have better odds of getting more.


    Raise, not lower, your expectations.

  • Adam


    Lets use some logic here and use the term full time equivalent workers. Woltlab has two full time developers and two part time developers. If these part time developers each spend half the time working on programming that Woltlab considers a full time developer then they have three Full time equivalent developers. No logical person will state they have 4 developers and saying that they have 4 developers does not make sense.


    Now let's discuss the fact that badgering them about how disappointed you are in their performance is rude. This is a great development team that has implemented almost everything one could ask for in the product.

  • No logical person will state they have 4 developers

    Considering that most folks in here argues they had 2 full time and 2 part time.... I'll stand by and say, logically it was argued.

    Now let's discuss the fact that badgering them about how disappointed you are in their performance is rude.

    I think you misunderstand...


    Constructive criticism is a must in all developments. So is feedback.


    When someone does great... I'm going to be the most vocal person telling people how wonderful I think something is. I'm going to reach such a level, that you'd think I was advertizing or worked for the company.


    However, when someone falls short... I'm going to be the most vocal person to draw attention where the ball was dropped and what improvements are needed to such a level that it cannot be easily ignored or dismissed.

    This is a great development team that has implemented almost everything one could ask for in the product.

    I agree. Do not think I dislike Woltlab. I love it. But I want people here to change their mentality and want more, expect more, raise your level of expectation.


    I'm noticing a growing complacency... I want it to be overcome. I want people not to think about yesterday, today, or even tomorrow... I want them thinking about next month and next year.

    Edited once, last by Aslan ().